First thing I've got to do is to thank Barry and his partner for giving us so much of their time. The Cardiff stylist fights the devastating Brazilian puncher Acelino Freitas on January 15 in a bid to reclaim the WBO superfeatherweight title he won when he defeated the Colombian Wilson Palacio in December 1997. Barry has never been beaten in the ring, he was tragically forced to relinquish the title when there were complications with a brain scan. A lengthy battle ensued to allay any concerns the boxing Board had. Credit should be given to the WBO who have retained Barry as their No.1 contender throughout his exile from the ring. I for one have full faith in Barry's ability to frustrate Freitas in the early rounds to impose himself on the champion in the later in the fight. The interview that Barry gave us is frank and honest. Subjects such as his forthcoming fight and his enforced layoff dominated but what was particularity interesting about talking to Barry was some insightful comments Barry made about the nature of a fighters life and the commercial forces that affect them. Donald Mcrae in his book Dark Trade describes fighters as boxings only truly moral asset. Having spent time with Barry I realise how truthful this and that Barry is an exemplary example of this. Again thank you Barry!
Interview by: Gareth Welch
BW - Thanks a lot for taking time out to speak to Boxing Wise.
Jones - Thats OK.
BW - Can I ask you about your amateur record.
Jones - I had about 115 fights. I started when I was ten, I had about 4 fights and
then gave up until I was about 12. I was influenced by my brother, he was
British schoolboy champion and he gave up, so I did and went back into it
when I was about 12 or 13. I won 2 Welsh schoolboy titles, 2 Welsh youth
(senior) and then I turned pro at 18. There was a silver in the Golden
Gloves, a European silver in the European juniors, and then I went to the
World Junior Championships in Canada and got beat but I was a semi finalist.
I knew that I was going to turn pro at 18.
BW - Didn't you turn pro with Dai Gardener as your trainer?
Jones - No I never no, no. I turned pro with Pat Thomas, he was light Welterweight
Champ and Billy Ayers. It was one of my biggest regrets to be honest that
Billy wasn't a millionaire. I'm with Frank Warren now and although they
have got the money and the oppurtunities.... I'm not saying that they are
insincere but it lacks the personal touch. With Billy and Pat it wasn't
like I was their son but there was a family atmosphere. If I took a punch
they took a punch it was that kind of scenario. I had 12 fights with Pat
and Billy and after a year and a half it was obvious that I was not going
to go anywhere with then. I had a three year contract and after that I had
to leave, it was very hard to do, but I did leave in the end. Following
this I had two fights with Dai Gardener and as I was a ticket seller if
they could get me some sort of title fight then I would sign options on
that title. Following this I went to work in Ireland and when I got back
I signed with Frank (Warren).
BW - It was with Warren that you got a shot at the WBO Super feather weight title.
Jones - Yeah that's right, I had no trouble making Featherweight but I was offered
a shot at Superfeatherweight. I think it was a case of them having a TV
date to fill up and as I wasn't getting any options anywhere else so I said
OK. I had a first defence then the next minute I was offered a world title
shot. Totally unexpected and probably not deserved at the time but thats
the way boxing is.
BW - I'd like to ask you about Acelino Freitas, how much do you know about him?
He's a bit of a mystery man isn't he?
Jones - I don't know too much about him. He's had 22 fights and 22 KO's. and thats
about all I need to know I think.
BW - A lot of people are saying that he is like a young Roberto Duran...
Jones - Yeah I was telling my friends about that so I'm guessing that he is very
ferocious. I've got a video coming soon but as he has been knocking everyone
over its hard to get hold of a decent video.
BW - I know that there have been some questions regarding the quality of opposition
that Freitas has been facing with the exception of Alexanderov.
Jones - To KO Alexanderov he must be....... To be honest before, when Freitas was
the number one contender I wasn't worried about fighting him. I was hoping
that he would beat Alexanderov. Regardless of him being a puncher, if he
is a come forward fighter then he will suit my style. Alexanderov is very
technical and hard to hit. He would be a nightmare for me and for the public.
A fight between us would be a 12 round bore. If a fighter like Freitas
comes at me then it does not bother me. I'm not physically strong and I
don't attempt to use my strength. I rely on my boxing skills and my brain
so if they coming at me then that suits me all day long. I'm glad that
Freitas won. It was just the way he won. KO'ing alexanderov in two minutes
and by all accounts it was devastating. I heard he KO'ed him in 2 minutes
and that Alexanderov was out for 5 minutes. Saying that, I've never been
KO'ed and I've never been seriously hurt and the way I look at it is that
the pressure is on him. He has to KO me and every round it goes is another
in the bag for me and then it is a psychological game. If a puncher is used
to Kayoing people and as the rounds go on he can see that he is not hitting
me and hurting me and he has not KO'ed me then it is going to raise questions
in his own mind. He will be asking questions of himself and that is my
goal. Once a puncher is questioning his strength then he won't be punching
with such authority so he will be swinging more,lunging more, his balance
won't be there and that is when I can use my speed and combinations to
hopefully take him away. The theory is quite simple but practically it
can make for hard work.
BW - It is the classic confrontation between boxer and puncher.
Jones - Yeah I think it will be a really good fight. I'm not a big puncher, I'm
an out and out boxer and he is a devastating puncher so......
BW - I think you have probably answered this already but without giving too much
away how do you think you'll handle the fight tactically?
Jones - I think it will be heavily psychological. I've got to really mess him
around, every time he throws something I've got to use some trick. I can't
let him work. I've got to cancel out everything good he does. Many American
and South American fighters are really good in punching range. They slip
and they move but I am never in that range. Obviously I can't dance around
for 12 rounds as he will catch up with me eventually. Boxing is all about
angles and I will have to give him different angles all the time. Every
time I think he is settling I'll have to feint, give him a different angle,
runaway, stick my hand in his face. I've got to do something to break his
rhythem of attack.
BW - In some ways it could equate to way De La Hoya fought Trinidad.
Jones - Yeah people slagged him off but to me thats boxing. OK he faltered in the
later rounds but he boxed a great fight and although he didn't beat him
(Trinidad) comfortably....
BW - He still won.
Jones - Yeah thats boxing for you. It's all about hitting and not getting hit.
BW - American fight fans tend to want to see KO's.
Jones - Yeah if you want to be a multi millionaire then you have to do things
differently but if want to be known as a good boxer with the purists I
think that it is about hitting and not getting hit.
BW - Well I thought that was the idea of the game.
Jones - I don't want to get hit, it hurts, you'd be a fool to say otherwise. I
can take a punch but you know.... Pat Thomas used to say that you can't
get into a bath without getting wet. So if you get into the ring then you
are going to get hit. In amateur boxing, Malcolm Collins who was a very
good amateur for Wales used to say "make them miss, make them pay." This
is something I've carried through my Amateur and professional careers.
That sums me up in a phrase. That's the way I box. I could change my style
to suit the public but it could make for a short career. It breaks your
heart to see some of the great fighters who are now all bashed up, battered
up.
BW - Did you see Ali on the TV recentently (Ali received a sportsman of the century
award from Holyfield on BBC TV.)
Jones - Ali I wouldn't say he was a great puncher but he seemed to take punches
for the sake of it, just to prove that he could take them, to play around
and do silly things when really you couldn't hit Ali with a handful of
rice. If you wanted to hit him you couldn't but he had to do it to make
his money. In America you've got to make a fight of it you can't win
comfortably its not good enough, you've got to make a fight of it.
BW - What did you think of the scoring in the De La Hoya fight and the affect of
some of the recent controversial decisions have had on boxing?
Jones - Yeah I was watching Darren Corbett fight on Sky the other day and to be
honest he was beaten comfortably but as he went forward constantly and
the judges went for the pressure but if you're not scoring they (judges)
go for the aggressor if you're making the fight but thats by the by because
if somebodies stronger than you then you would be a fool to go at them
so you can only do what you do. People think its all about crash, bang
wallop and a lot of judges think that as well. They seem to think that
you have to run together and its survival of the fittest and just swing
until someone goes down. They may think that a boxer may be scoring more
punches but he's not making a fight of it and they are conscious of the
public as well thinking that they want Trinidad tonight' so Trinidad gets
the round.
BW - Again it especially seems to the case in America.
Jones - Yeah I don't think you've got to be a boxer to be a judge, I don't
necessarily think that boxers make good judges. I myself would go for a
boxer every time and a puncher would go for a puncher every time. But there
should be some sort of academy for judges.
BW - Yes I agree that should be a more clearly defined criteria of what they are
looking for.
Jones - Yeah, what I think happens now is that they are working their commission
or board and they say you can have a license and then they send them to
a show after a month and they judge one, referee one, and the next minute
they are at a world class fight and although some are very accomplished,
we have some great referees and judges in Britain, but some are stuck in
their ways and there is an age factor as well. Some judges who are in their
fifties and sixties may not be attuned to the evolution of boxing. It's
not like it was in the sixties so they might be judging by the mentality
of what it used to be like in the old days but now it is technically so
different and you have to look for different things in a fight.
BW - Going back to the Freitas fight it is a shame that it couldn't have happened
in Cardiff.
Jones - Yeah I haven't really spoken to Warren about it but it seems to be me
because he is in Albuquerque with Johnny Tapia the week before and that
is a big show and most of his staff will be there. He needs someone he
can throw the entire show at, someone who can handle the ticketing, press
and TV. I think he is working with Johnny Rushton the Doncaster promoter
and thats probably the only guy he feels he can trust. There is Dai Gardener
in Wales and I don't know why he hasn't used him but he probably has got
some deal with Johnny. At the end of the day its not about the venue or
the public, its about the TV. He knows I'll take a good crowd wherever I
go. Even though I won't fill an arena they will put them (my supporters)
camera facing and for the TV it will look like there is a full house but
I am disappointed that it is not in Cardiff for my fans.
BW - When you fought Chris Williams (June 1999) on the under card of Joe Calzaghe/
Thornberry you seemed to have the vast majority of support in the crowd.
Jones - I was disappointed about that. I was supposed to come on before Joe but
they put me on after. The reason being that despite Joe being an excellent
fighter and we all love him and he's a good Welsh boy and he is great
for TV but he doesn't sell tickets. No one knows why and they were worried
that if I went on before Joe they might leave (Barry's fans).
BW - As it was people were chanting your name while Joe was fighting anyway.
Jones - Thats right, they put me back because it makes for a terrific atmosphere
with people shouting and everything for the TV but yeah I was disappointed
about that to be honest and I would have sold out anywhere (in Cardiff).
BW - What do you make of the current crop of British Super Feather weights then?
Jones - It's one the best divisions in Britain, there are some good fighters. I
watched Dean Pithie in the week and although I think he is a good fighter...
I should be careful with what I say because when you are fighting yourself
if you criticise other fighters you're just setting yourself up to be
knocked down. But I think he has found his level to be honest, he is a nice
fella but yeah I think he has found his level. You've got to say that when
he fights Michael Gomez for the British title you've got to say that Michael
has got to be favourite.
BW - What do you think of Michael Gomez then.
Jones - Yeah he is a good fighter. I think me and Michael would make a great fight.
BW - You were at the Michael Gomez / Gary Thornhill fight weren't you.
Jones - Yeah I thought that would go 12 rounds. Gary Thornhill is a good fighter
and Michael knocked him out with a great punch. It was text book, straight
to the chin. But Gary would be a harder fight for me than Dean Pithie and
possibly Michael Gomez, he would give me a lot of pressure but, I don't
usually talk like this but I can't see anyone being able to beat me to be
honest with you. Its not like me to talk like this but I'm feed up with
being to nice, I've had up to here. There're nice guys and I've spoken to
Michael and we know that me and him, on our fans alone would make a great
fight. We both get great support wherever it would be it would be a sell
out. But I've got to win a World Title first. Its no good fighting for a
British Title. Also he is one of Frank (Warren) babies I think. Frank has
got his babies like Hatton, Farnell, Joe (Calzaghe) and Michael. He is an
exciting fighter and is great for TV. He is a TV dream. I think people
get confused between an exciting fighter and a good fighter.
BW - This is a question I was going to ask you. Obviously I know that Warren is
your promoter but there has been a lot of debate recently about Sky having
a detrimental affect in the long term on (British) boxing.
Jones - I got to careful what I say here. Certain promoters, not just here but in
the world have got a monopoly on boxing and it doesn't give a chance to
other people. We've some good brokers in this country and I'm not saying
that anyone is corrupt but people can be influenced by a broker (a manager),
not financially but.... If boxing is in the public eye then I guess it is
a good thing for British boxing and Sky is the closest that we can get I
suppose.
BW - I personally feel as though: if you take the classic example of the fight that
was shown on Grandstand (a Saturday afternoon sports show on BBC terrestrial
television) recently which had 4 million viewers
Jones - Yeah and I didn't even know them.
BW - And how many people watched Lewis/ Holyfield for example.
Jones - Yeah I read that they had a lot more watching Grandstand.
BW - Personally I think that despite Sky pumping more money into the lower levels
of boxing I think that their type of coverage will have the affect of
marginalising boxing.
Jones - You haven't got any heroes anymore.
BW - I think their decision to make it really hard to see the Oscar DeLaHoya /
Trinidad fight was a prime example of that.
Jones - Everyone should know who DeLaHoya is. He is a mega star in America and he
should be well known over here. Because Naz is so freaky everyone knows
him but Joe Calzaghe should be a much bigger name now than he is. I won a
world title but I can walk around the street and have no one recognise
me but if that had been on BBC like Mcguigan and although he was a good
fighter when you look at what he did, in comparison to someone like Steve
Robinson he didn't do all that. What? Two defences and then he got beat
and although he is a great fighter because he was on BBC he is immortal
now. We've got fighters now that should be in the same league but due to
SKY it hasn't turned out. I think they (SKY) salvaged boxing at a time
when it wasn't getting any TV. It can along at the right time I think. But
of course there are monopolies in boxing. When you look at some of the
people I fought Mike Deveney (Barry beat him on points in 1993), who won
the British title, Neil Swain (beaten by Barry again in 93), won the
Commonwealth title and Elvis Parsley, a good guy who fought for the British
title and I didn't get any chances at all. I went away to work for a year,
came back and signed up to Frank (Warren) had one fight which was a draw,
but I had won easily, and I got a title fight like that. Not because
suddenly I improved... why? Because I'm the best fighter in the world? It's
obvious isn't it. I don't like to say it but why did Joe (Johnny Nelson)
get his shot at Eubank? Now he probably is the best fighter in the world
but at the time he wasn't deserving of it and the list goes on.
BW - It's looking likely that Ricky Hatton will get a world title shot within the
year.
Jones - I don't think he is ready. He is an exciting fighter same as Michael Gomez,
both good but people assume that exciting fighters are going to be super-
stars. But saying that Hatton demolished Mark Wintours which was a good
test for him. The difference between that level and world level is big but
it also depends on who is the WBO champion which is the title that he will
be fighting for and he will get better as he goes. If all fighters are
earning lots of money I'm happy, at the end of the day we are all there
for the money. We all want to be world champion, we all want the the glory
but we all want to be well paid. Its hard. You go in to negotiate contracts
with nothing. They (the managers) have got all the aces and they are
offering you a deal and they know that they can offer a certain amount and
you're trying to bargain with them and they know where their mark is and
they know that you are going to take what they are offering or you will go.
They know that you are not going to go because you've got nowhere to go.
There are only three people I can go to in Britain. If I fell out with
Frank today would I be still be number one contender? I'm not saying I
wouldn't but would I? Who knows. Frank has been great to me, he has given
me opputunities but I have been disappointed that I have only had one fight
since getting my title back. I've been ready since November 1998. I was
offered a fight in December which was too soon and I've been phoning up
for a fight since February. I had one, in June, in Cardiff when I could
have had four or five. I can understand Frank's point of view where for
his well being he has got a number one contender and he is trying to get
a deal with the champion, Alexanderov at the time, and he does not want
me to fight because I might get beat or cut or anything and then he will
lose the TV date which is what it is all about. So he sacrificed six months
of my career to save his dates. I know that it is part of the sport but
the communications factor is bad between fighters, brokers or managers,
unless you are with a small time manager and he is trying to make his name
with you there is no communication. It is why a lot of good fighters give
up. It really is, they get no communication, they think that they are not
being thought about or looked after and then you get a phone call giving
you three weeks notice to fight for a title and you will take it because
you have got no money and you are not really ready. That is why some great
fighters and prospects have been beat in the past not because they didn't
have what it takes but simply because they were not ready and needed the
money.
BW - How did you cope when you first received the news that there were problems
with one of your brain scans and that your license was to be suspended? It
must have been so disappointing to say the very least.
Jones - I was training for the Laws fight and I had been to a benefit night for
an amateur gym and I not home late and woke up in the morning and my father
called to tell me the news. With the way I box and things I do it was
freaky for me to fail a scan. Saying that it was severe. I got a call from
Dave Lewis who was working for Frank at the time and I thought, shit! It
wasn't the boxing, I was really scared for my health. It was like am I
going to drop dead in ten minutes, it could have been anything. So I called
a friend of mine, a doctor who works with the British Boxing Board and he
said he would find things out for me. Then the press found out and that
was hard, that first week it was so stressful with people saying "sorry
about that, it is your health that is more important," and they were right.
I said OK. Then I didn't hear anything for a while and then contact was
made with the radiologists and when the condition was explained they okayed
it in Cardiff and sent it to London showing the change. They said that they
were not having that. So I went to see a brain surgeon which cost me a lot
of money and he worked a lot with the boxing board as well that there was
a change but he would be happy for me to continue, even though he does not
agree with boxing at all. He explained that there was a change but it was
not a change for the worst, it was just a change. There is no damage to
the grey matter or brain tissue or anything you use to function with, it
was a movement in the brains alignment with the skull, 0.2 mm. That went
on then with the Boxing Board. I had a big payday coming up in France and
this was when I became bitter when we had a formal meeting with the Boxing
Board with a big stack of documents, a letter off the Brain surgeon who
was there with the Boxing Board as they has requested him. I was there for
half an hour. It was around the time that Frank Thorburn had just collapsed
so I think the Board felt as though they had to do the right thing for the
image of boxing not for Barry Jones. To be honest it didn't concern me,
I don't care about the image of boxing. I went there with all of the
information and they chose to dismiss that, not giving me my license back.
I appealed and went back in September or October with the same information
but with a barrister (a lawyer) and got it back like that. That was the
bitter part. I had no more information I just had a guy who put it across
better and their doctor at the appeal couldn't disagree.